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  #1  
Old May 20th, 2021, 07:32 AM
dreimer dreimer is offline
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Default Losing art

So I have a template that worked great in Fusion Pro 10. I have upgraded to 12 and now I am having problems. After composing the job (which has a possible 185 JPEG images pulled in based on data) the PDF looks great. I will then run it through either of our color management systems Alwan or GMG and all images, text, and barcodes composed through Fusion Pro are gone, all that is left is the base art. This was not happening with Fusion Pro 10. Only started with Fusion Pro 12. So I tested further and placed my composed PDF into InDesign and exported with my normal settings. Then ran that through either of the color management systems and it looks great.

Does Fusion Pro 12 have some sort of different output settings behind the scenes I can't change? I have tried with optimize (compress) PDF on the 2 different settings and also off and that changes nothing.

I uploaded the template but it isn't collecting the images?

I also uploaded the images for record 1.

Anyone have any insight?
Attached Files
File Type: zip 3178076_FP_CSV.zip (435.8 KB, 6 views)
File Type: zip Images.zip (3.79 MB, 6 views)
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Don Reimer - JavaScript Novice

MAC OS 10.14.6 Acrobat DC FP Creator 12.0.1

Last edited by dreimer; May 20th, 2021 at 07:47 AM..
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  #2  
Old May 20th, 2021, 10:21 AM
Dan Korn's Avatar
Dan Korn Dan Korn is offline
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Default Re: Losing art

So you're saying that the PDF output looks fine in Acrobat, and in InDesign, but that some other third-party tool doesn't handle it properly? I know this sounds like passing the buck, but if it's right in Acrobat, then it's a problem in the third-party tool, not in FusionPro.

Adobe, and in particular their tool Acrobat, is pretty much the "gold standard" in terms of arbitrating whether a PDF is correct and what it looks like. In addition to rendering properly in Acrobat, we have tons of evidence that our PDF output renders correctly with all industry-leading RIPs and screen readers. So your other tools are definitely in the minority.

There may be some subtlety about the structure of the PDF, or color management, or something else that the tool is particularly sensitive to, but that's impossible for me to analyze (even if I had your output). Either way, if Acrobat handles it, the thrid-party tool should too.

As for what changed between FP 10 and FP 12, well, quite a bit, including the version of the Adobe PDF Library it uses (specifically, PDFL version 9 in FP 10 and PDFL 15 in FP 11 and 12.). So it might just be that the third-party tool needs an update to handle newer versions of PDF.

At any rate, you'll need to contact the other vendor(s) to find out why their tool doesn't properly handle the PDF.
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Dan Korn
FusionPro Developer / JavaScript Guru / Forum Moderator
PTI Marketing Technologies | Printable | MarcomCentral
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I am a not a Support engineer, and this forum is not a substitute for Support. My participation on this forum is primarily as a fellow user (and a forum moderator). I am happy to provide help and answers to questions when I can; however, there is no guarantee that I, or anyone else on this forum, will be able to answer all questions or fix any problems. If I ask for files to clarify an issue, I might not be able to look at them personally. I am not able to answer private messages, emails, or phone calls unless they go through proper Support channels. Please direct any sales or pricing questions to your salesperson or inquiries@marcom.com.

Complex template-building questions, as well as all installation and font questions or problems, should be directed to FusionProSupport@marcom.com. Paid consulting work may be required to fulfill your template-building needs.

This is a publicly viewable forum. Please DO NOT post fonts, or other proprietary content, to this forum. Also, please DO NOT post any "live" data with real names, addresses, or any other personal, private, or confidential data.

Please include the specific versions of FusionPro, Acrobat, and your operating system in any problem reports or help requests. I recommend putting this information in your forum signature. Please also check your composition log (.msg) file for relevant error or warning messages.

Please post questions specific to the MarcomCentral Enterprise and Web-to-Print applications in the MarcomCentral forum. Click here to request access. Or contact your Business Relationship Manager (BRM/CPM) for assistance.

Please direct any questions specific to EFI's Digital StoreFront (DSF) to EFI support.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

The correct spellings are JavaScript, FusionPro, and MarcomCentral (each with two capital letters and no spaces). Acceptable abbreviations are JS, FP, and MC (or MCC). There is no "S" at the end of "Expression" or "Printable"! The name of the product is FusionPro, not "Fusion". "Java" is not is not the same as JavaScript.

Check out the JavaScript Guide and JavaScript Reference! FusionPro 8.0 and newer use JavaScript 1.7. Older versions use JavaScript 1.5.

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  #3  
Old May 20th, 2021, 11:21 AM
sschardan sschardan is offline
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Default Re: Losing art

This might be a reach, but try exporting with different compression settings in the Output tab of the composer. There is now an Advanced compression that has given me some bad output with images. It turned subtle variations in a background of an image to blocky chunks, even dropping some portions to white. When I switched to basic or no compression, the problems went away.
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  #4  
Old May 20th, 2021, 11:39 AM
dreimer dreimer is offline
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Default Re: Losing art

I feel like I did somewhat eliminate the 3rd party softwares being the issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreimer View Post
So I tested further and placed my composed PDF into InDesign and exported with my normal settings. Then ran that through either of the color management systems and it looks great.
The composed PDF going straight into the 3rd party color management softwares loses the art during its processing but if that same composed PDF is placed in InDesign first and exported using Acrobat 8/9 (PDF 1.7) setting which look to be the highest compatibility option in InDesign the 3rd party software processes the file and nothing is lost.

The only thing that has changed in the process is the version of Fusion Pro being used.
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MAC OS 10.14.6 Acrobat DC FP Creator 12.0.1

Last edited by dreimer; May 20th, 2021 at 11:52 AM..
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  #5  
Old May 20th, 2021, 04:09 PM
Dan Korn's Avatar
Dan Korn Dan Korn is offline
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Default Re: Losing art

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreimer View Post
The composed PDF going straight into the 3rd party color management softwares loses the art during its processing but if that same composed PDF is placed in InDesign first and exported using Acrobat 8/9 (PDF 1.7) setting which look to be the highest compatibility option in InDesign the 3rd party software processes the file and nothing is lost.
That doesn't eliminate the third-party software as having a bug which prevents it from processing the output PDF. It just means that it doesn't have a problem with every PDF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreimer View Post
The only thing that has changed in the process is the version of Fusion Pro being used.
Yes, I understand, and like I said, it does use an entirely different version of the Adobe PDF Library. Clearly something different in the output PDF composed by FusionPro 12 versus the one composed by FP 10 is triggering something in the third-party utility that prevents it from processing it properly. But that doesn't mean that the PDF is invalid. Again, if Acrobat can process it, it's valid by definition, or at least there's no higher authority.

At any rate, I'm not sure what I, or anyone else on this forum, can do. I have no insight into the third-party utility or how it works to have any idea why it has trouble with certain PDFs. The only people who can do that are the folks who work on that utility. (My best guess is that they need to update their utility to handle newer versions of PDF from newer versions of the PDF Library, or perhaps they already have an update that you need to install.)

My recommendation is still to contact the vendor of that utility. If they point to something specific in the PDF that's causing their app trouble, then we might be able to work with them, and possibly even with Adobe, to figure out how to make our PDF output conformant with their tool. (Or maybe we'll figure out what settings you need to tweak in FusionPro.) But I'm sorry to say that there's nothing we at PTI can do on our own.
__________________
Dan Korn
FusionPro Developer / JavaScript Guru / Forum Moderator
PTI Marketing Technologies | Printable | MarcomCentral
LinkedIn

I am a not a Support engineer, and this forum is not a substitute for Support. My participation on this forum is primarily as a fellow user (and a forum moderator). I am happy to provide help and answers to questions when I can; however, there is no guarantee that I, or anyone else on this forum, will be able to answer all questions or fix any problems. If I ask for files to clarify an issue, I might not be able to look at them personally. I am not able to answer private messages, emails, or phone calls unless they go through proper Support channels. Please direct any sales or pricing questions to your salesperson or inquiries@marcom.com.

Complex template-building questions, as well as all installation and font questions or problems, should be directed to FusionProSupport@marcom.com. Paid consulting work may be required to fulfill your template-building needs.

This is a publicly viewable forum. Please DO NOT post fonts, or other proprietary content, to this forum. Also, please DO NOT post any "live" data with real names, addresses, or any other personal, private, or confidential data.

Please include the specific versions of FusionPro, Acrobat, and your operating system in any problem reports or help requests. I recommend putting this information in your forum signature. Please also check your composition log (.msg) file for relevant error or warning messages.

Please post questions specific to the MarcomCentral Enterprise and Web-to-Print applications in the MarcomCentral forum. Click here to request access. Or contact your Business Relationship Manager (BRM/CPM) for assistance.

Please direct any questions specific to EFI's Digital StoreFront (DSF) to EFI support.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

The correct spellings are JavaScript, FusionPro, and MarcomCentral (each with two capital letters and no spaces). Acceptable abbreviations are JS, FP, and MC (or MCC). There is no "S" at the end of "Expression" or "Printable"! The name of the product is FusionPro, not "Fusion". "Java" is not is not the same as JavaScript.

Check out the JavaScript Guide and JavaScript Reference! FusionPro 8.0 and newer use JavaScript 1.7. Older versions use JavaScript 1.5.

return "KbwbTdsjqu!spdlt\"".replace(/./g,function(w){return String.fromCharCode(w.charCodeAt()-1)});
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  #6  
Old May 21st, 2021, 09:25 AM
dreimer dreimer is offline
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Default Re: Losing art

Looking at the properties of the two PDFs one from Fusion Pro 10 and one from Fusion Pro 12, they are both using Adobe PDF Library 15 and PDF version 1.5. So that doesn't seem to be the issue? I took screenshots of the document properties. The one from Fusion Pro 12 has (DEBUG) included in the Application?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Fusion Pro 10.pdf (90.0 KB, 5 views)
File Type: pdf Fusion Pro 12.pdf (90.0 KB, 5 views)
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Don Reimer - JavaScript Novice

MAC OS 10.14.6 Acrobat DC FP Creator 12.0.1
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  #7  
Old May 21st, 2021, 09:45 AM
Dan Korn's Avatar
Dan Korn Dan Korn is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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Default Re: Losing art

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreimer View Post
Looking at the properties of the two PDFs one from Fusion Pro 10 and one from Fusion Pro 12, they are both using Adobe PDF Library 15 and PDF version 1.5.
Sorry, the change to PDFL 15 was made between FusionPro versions 10.0 and 10.1. (You just said "FusionPro 10," so I assumed 10.0.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreimer View Post
So that doesn't seem to be the issue?
Okay, so there have been point updates to the version of PDFL, even though the major version has been at 15 for a while. Anyway, whether the issue is related to the version of PDFL, or something else in FusionPro, is impossible for me to determine, without knowing exactly what about the PDF the third-party utility is objecting to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreimer View Post
I took screenshots of the document properties. The one from Fusion Pro 12 has (DEBUG) included in the Application?
Thanks for pointing that out. It shouldn't say that. I'll have to investigate why that's happening. Still, that's just a string in the doc info, which shouldn't affect rendering. If you go to "About FusionPro" in the FusionPro app, it doesn't say Debug there, does it?
__________________
Dan Korn
FusionPro Developer / JavaScript Guru / Forum Moderator
PTI Marketing Technologies | Printable | MarcomCentral
LinkedIn

I am a not a Support engineer, and this forum is not a substitute for Support. My participation on this forum is primarily as a fellow user (and a forum moderator). I am happy to provide help and answers to questions when I can; however, there is no guarantee that I, or anyone else on this forum, will be able to answer all questions or fix any problems. If I ask for files to clarify an issue, I might not be able to look at them personally. I am not able to answer private messages, emails, or phone calls unless they go through proper Support channels. Please direct any sales or pricing questions to your salesperson or inquiries@marcom.com.

Complex template-building questions, as well as all installation and font questions or problems, should be directed to FusionProSupport@marcom.com. Paid consulting work may be required to fulfill your template-building needs.

This is a publicly viewable forum. Please DO NOT post fonts, or other proprietary content, to this forum. Also, please DO NOT post any "live" data with real names, addresses, or any other personal, private, or confidential data.

Please include the specific versions of FusionPro, Acrobat, and your operating system in any problem reports or help requests. I recommend putting this information in your forum signature. Please also check your composition log (.msg) file for relevant error or warning messages.

Please post questions specific to the MarcomCentral Enterprise and Web-to-Print applications in the MarcomCentral forum. Click here to request access. Or contact your Business Relationship Manager (BRM/CPM) for assistance.

Please direct any questions specific to EFI's Digital StoreFront (DSF) to EFI support.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

The correct spellings are JavaScript, FusionPro, and MarcomCentral (each with two capital letters and no spaces). Acceptable abbreviations are JS, FP, and MC (or MCC). There is no "S" at the end of "Expression" or "Printable"! The name of the product is FusionPro, not "Fusion". "Java" is not is not the same as JavaScript.

Check out the JavaScript Guide and JavaScript Reference! FusionPro 8.0 and newer use JavaScript 1.7. Older versions use JavaScript 1.5.

return "KbwbTdsjqu!spdlt\"".replace(/./g,function(w){return String.fromCharCode(w.charCodeAt()-1)});
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  #8  
Old May 21st, 2021, 10:30 AM
dreimer dreimer is offline
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Default Re: Losing art

It does not say that in the application itself.

Would it do me any good to reach out to PTI support directly?
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Don Reimer - JavaScript Novice

MAC OS 10.14.6 Acrobat DC FP Creator 12.0.1
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  #9  
Old May 21st, 2021, 12:00 PM
MartyrSyx's Avatar
MartyrSyx MartyrSyx is offline
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Default Re: Losing art

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreimer View Post
Would it do me any good to reach out to PTI support directly?
I suggest you contact the support for "...color management systems Alwan or GMG..." as Dan suggested. Only they can tell you why it is not working through their software. If it displays fine in Acrobat, it would tend to be the other software that is having some kind of issue with the pdf.
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  #10  
Old May 24th, 2021, 09:58 AM
Dan Korn's Avatar
Dan Korn Dan Korn is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,638
Default Re: Losing art

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreimer View Post
It does not say that in the application itself.
Thanks. I'm still looking into why it says "Debug" in the Application metadata. But that won't affect rendering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreimer View Post
Would it do me any good to reach out to PTI support directly?
I would almost never discourage anyone from contacting our excellent Support department. In this case, though, it would just get escalated back to me, or my boss, which is pretty much the top of the FusionPro food chain, so there's nobody else on our end who would be able to give you a different answer. I continue to recommend that you contact Support for those third-party vendors.
__________________
Dan Korn
FusionPro Developer / JavaScript Guru / Forum Moderator
PTI Marketing Technologies | Printable | MarcomCentral
LinkedIn

I am a not a Support engineer, and this forum is not a substitute for Support. My participation on this forum is primarily as a fellow user (and a forum moderator). I am happy to provide help and answers to questions when I can; however, there is no guarantee that I, or anyone else on this forum, will be able to answer all questions or fix any problems. If I ask for files to clarify an issue, I might not be able to look at them personally. I am not able to answer private messages, emails, or phone calls unless they go through proper Support channels. Please direct any sales or pricing questions to your salesperson or inquiries@marcom.com.

Complex template-building questions, as well as all installation and font questions or problems, should be directed to FusionProSupport@marcom.com. Paid consulting work may be required to fulfill your template-building needs.

This is a publicly viewable forum. Please DO NOT post fonts, or other proprietary content, to this forum. Also, please DO NOT post any "live" data with real names, addresses, or any other personal, private, or confidential data.

Please include the specific versions of FusionPro, Acrobat, and your operating system in any problem reports or help requests. I recommend putting this information in your forum signature. Please also check your composition log (.msg) file for relevant error or warning messages.

Please post questions specific to the MarcomCentral Enterprise and Web-to-Print applications in the MarcomCentral forum. Click here to request access. Or contact your Business Relationship Manager (BRM/CPM) for assistance.

Please direct any questions specific to EFI's Digital StoreFront (DSF) to EFI support.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

The correct spellings are JavaScript, FusionPro, and MarcomCentral (each with two capital letters and no spaces). Acceptable abbreviations are JS, FP, and MC (or MCC). There is no "S" at the end of "Expression" or "Printable"! The name of the product is FusionPro, not "Fusion". "Java" is not is not the same as JavaScript.

Check out the JavaScript Guide and JavaScript Reference! FusionPro 8.0 and newer use JavaScript 1.7. Older versions use JavaScript 1.5.

return "KbwbTdsjqu!spdlt\"".replace(/./g,function(w){return String.fromCharCode(w.charCodeAt()-1)});
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