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Old December 7th, 2016, 02:29 PM
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Default Bloated file size when outputting in batches

I'm working on a calendar with about 400 records on it. I'm batching files in groups of 20 to keep the file size down. The first batch of 20 I did came out to be about 710MB in size; the second batch of 20 went way up to 4.1GB. This will undoubtedly crash our iGen so it's a no-go. I ran into this same issue last year during our yearly calendar project and I can't remember what the workaround was. Anybody know what would cause such a huge disparity in file size, and better yet what I can do to prevent it from happening?
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  #2  
Old December 7th, 2016, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: Bloated file size when outputting in batches

What output format are you composing to? If it's PDF, it could be the embedded fonts. Also, what are the versions of FusionPro and your operating system? And are you composing locally in FP Desktop (Acrobat), or via FP Producer or Server?

EDIT: I just noticed that you posted this in the FP Expression forum. Is this an Expression job that you're running through the Expression Producer or Producer CL? Or does the FusionPro VDP job use Expression images? Or did you mean to post this somewhere else?
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I am a not a Support engineer, and this forum is not a substitute for Support. My participation on this forum is primarily as a fellow user (and a forum moderator). I am happy to provide help and answers to questions when I can; however, there is no guarantee that I, or anyone else on this forum, will be able to answer all questions or fix any problems. If I ask for files to clarify an issue, I might not be able to look at them personally. I am not able to answer private messages, emails, or phone calls unless they go through proper Support channels. Please direct any sales or pricing questions to your salesperson or inquiries@marcom.com.

Complex template-building questions, as well as all installation and font questions or problems, should be directed to FusionProSupport@marcom.com. Paid consulting work may be required to fulfill your template-building needs.

This is a publicly viewable forum. Please DO NOT post fonts, or other proprietary content, to this forum. Also, please DO NOT post any "live" data with real names, addresses, or any other personal, private, or confidential data.

Please include the specific versions of FusionPro, Acrobat, and your operating system in any problem reports or help requests. I recommend putting this information in your forum signature. Please also check your composition log (.msg) file for relevant error or warning messages.

Please post questions specific to the MarcomCentral Enterprise and Web-to-Print applications in the MarcomCentral forum. Click here to request access. Or contact your Business Relationship Manager (BRM/CPM) for assistance.

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The correct spellings are JavaScript, FusionPro, and MarcomCentral (each with two capital letters and no spaces). Acceptable abbreviations are JS, FP, and MC (or MCC). There is no "S" at the end of "Expression" or "Printable"! The name of the product is FusionPro, not "Fusion". "Java" is not is not the same as JavaScript.

Check out the JavaScript Guide and JavaScript Reference! FusionPro 8.0 and newer use JavaScript 1.7. Older versions use JavaScript 1.5.

return "KbwbTdsjqu!spdlt\"".replace(/./g,function(w){return String.fromCharCode(w.charCodeAt()-1)});
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  #3  
Old December 8th, 2016, 06:36 AM
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Default Re: Bloated file size when outputting in batches

Whoops, forgot to include those details. Was in a hurry to post before I left for the day... I'm running everything locally. It's a FusionPro VDP job in Acrobat that uses 8 different Expression images. I'm outputting to PDF. Don't know if it's worth mentioning but the FP VDP template and the final files being output are not actually on my machine, but rather a local network where we host our files.

On both files I output so far -- the 700MB and the 4GB -- I actually did receive an error about a font not embedding. Weirdly though, it says "*** Bold" is not embedded so it's embedding the bold version of the font? Either way, I ran the Preflight tool in Acrobat afterwards and on both files, neither reported missing fonts.

I figured this was more a question specific to FP Expression since I only ever have it happen when using Expression images.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 07:56 AM
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Default Re: Bloated file size when outputting in batches

I'm assuming that expression images will vary in size based on what's composed....

We'd had issues with higher volume PDFs print runs and had to use PPML for our iGen and although the file sizes aren't that drastic in size, the RIP was significantly faster. Printing is slower while RIP'ng.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 09:46 AM
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Dan Korn Dan Korn is offline
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Default Re: Bloated file size when outputting in batches

A few things: First, you probably want to use a VDP-optimized output format such as PPML, VDX, or PDF/VT instead of PDF. That said, it's difficult to optimize something like a personalized image, which is likely different for each record. Perhaps the size of the Expression images can be reduced? You may need to save lower-resolution versions of your FPX templates so that the generated images are smaller. If I could see the files, I might be able to make more specific suggestions.
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Dan Korn
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PTI Marketing Technologies | Printable | MarcomCentral
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I am a not a Support engineer, and this forum is not a substitute for Support. My participation on this forum is primarily as a fellow user (and a forum moderator). I am happy to provide help and answers to questions when I can; however, there is no guarantee that I, or anyone else on this forum, will be able to answer all questions or fix any problems. If I ask for files to clarify an issue, I might not be able to look at them personally. I am not able to answer private messages, emails, or phone calls unless they go through proper Support channels. Please direct any sales or pricing questions to your salesperson or inquiries@marcom.com.

Complex template-building questions, as well as all installation and font questions or problems, should be directed to FusionProSupport@marcom.com. Paid consulting work may be required to fulfill your template-building needs.

This is a publicly viewable forum. Please DO NOT post fonts, or other proprietary content, to this forum. Also, please DO NOT post any "live" data with real names, addresses, or any other personal, private, or confidential data.

Please include the specific versions of FusionPro, Acrobat, and your operating system in any problem reports or help requests. I recommend putting this information in your forum signature. Please also check your composition log (.msg) file for relevant error or warning messages.

Please post questions specific to the MarcomCentral Enterprise and Web-to-Print applications in the MarcomCentral forum. Click here to request access. Or contact your Business Relationship Manager (BRM/CPM) for assistance.

Please direct any questions specific to EFI's Digital StoreFront (DSF) to EFI support.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

The correct spellings are JavaScript, FusionPro, and MarcomCentral (each with two capital letters and no spaces). Acceptable abbreviations are JS, FP, and MC (or MCC). There is no "S" at the end of "Expression" or "Printable"! The name of the product is FusionPro, not "Fusion". "Java" is not is not the same as JavaScript.

Check out the JavaScript Guide and JavaScript Reference! FusionPro 8.0 and newer use JavaScript 1.7. Older versions use JavaScript 1.5.

return "KbwbTdsjqu!spdlt\"".replace(/./g,function(w){return String.fromCharCode(w.charCodeAt()-1)});
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  #6  
Old December 8th, 2016, 12:31 PM
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Default Re: Bloated file size when outputting in batches

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Quote:
A few things: First, you probably want to use a VDP-optimized output format such as PPML, VDX, or PDF/VT instead of PDF.
I tried PDF/VT but it made no difference. And unfortunately we're not really well versed in using PPML, VDX or basically anything other than PDF so we can't just switch it up at this time.

Quote:
Perhaps the size of the Expression images can be reduced?
The FPX templates all use 300dpi RGB .jpg images, 9.25" x 9.75" for the background. Most use a mask file of the same dimension, in .png format. One template uses a fill path for the personalized part, the rest use simple masking text. The templates all range in size from 3.7 to 12.7MB. I'm looking now at all the unique .jpg files that have been output for each name when I try to compose my FP VDP template, and they are all consistent in size for each correlating FPX template, regardless if the final PDF was normal or bloated in size. For example, my FPX template for the month of August is 5.6MB; All 133 unique .jpgs that have been output so far for each name come in at 4.3MB. So basically, all the personalized .jpgs are consistent in size from template to template, so I doubt that it's an issue with one (or more) of the Expression images.

One peculiar thing that happened this morning is one of the batches that initially bloated this morning came out to the correct size when I selected "Use RGB Color Space" on the "Output" tab when I Composed. I tried this setting on another batch that had bloated earlier but did not have the same luck.

At this point I've tried closing all programs (except Acrobat, Suitcase and FusionPro, of course) while composing, composing directly to my desktop as opposed to the network and done a complete restart of my computer. Nothing has worked. It's frustrating because I can't pinpoint anything that might be causing the problem. It seems totally random, but yet consistent in that once it happens to a batch, it happens to all batches that follow. I was able to squeeze two batches out this morning (after my computer had set on overnight) and then that rogue RGB batch mentioned earlier, but everything since then keeps coming out bloated.

I'm really starting to wonder if the issue is with FP Expression at all, maybe it is just a FP VDP issue? Maybe there's a cache or something somewhere that should be trashed, something along those lines? I'm at a loss.
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  #7  
Old December 8th, 2016, 01:03 PM
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Dan Korn Dan Korn is offline
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Default Re: Bloated file size when outputting in batches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stack View Post
The FPX templates all use 300dpi RGB .jpg images, 9.25" x 9.75" for the background. Most use a mask file of the same dimension, in .png format. One template uses a fill path for the personalized part, the rest use simple masking text. The templates all range in size from 3.7 to 12.7MB.
Yeah, those are some big graphics you're asking FusionPro VDP to process. Are the graphic frames in the FusionPro VDP template really 9.25" x 9.75"? Or are you having FusionPro squeeze those huge Expression graphics into smaller frames? If it's the latter, then you should redesign the Expression templates to generate smaller graphics. Or perhaps make some of the content a static picture to bring in behind whatever the variable part is that Expression is generating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stack View Post
I'm really starting to wonder if the issue is with FP Expression at all, maybe it is just a FP VDP issue? Maybe there's a cache or something somewhere that should be trashed, something along those lines? I'm at a loss.
Well, yes, it is an issue with FusionPro VDP. Expression is doing what you're asking it to do. FP VDP is also trying to do what you're asking, but you're asking a lot.

Again, though, it's hard to troubleshoot this, let alone make suggestions, purely in the abstract like this. A peek at, say, a few pages of one of your VDP output files would be quite illuminating.
__________________
Dan Korn
FusionPro Developer / JavaScript Guru / Forum Moderator
PTI Marketing Technologies | Printable | MarcomCentral
LinkedIn

I am a not a Support engineer, and this forum is not a substitute for Support. My participation on this forum is primarily as a fellow user (and a forum moderator). I am happy to provide help and answers to questions when I can; however, there is no guarantee that I, or anyone else on this forum, will be able to answer all questions or fix any problems. If I ask for files to clarify an issue, I might not be able to look at them personally. I am not able to answer private messages, emails, or phone calls unless they go through proper Support channels. Please direct any sales or pricing questions to your salesperson or inquiries@marcom.com.

Complex template-building questions, as well as all installation and font questions or problems, should be directed to FusionProSupport@marcom.com. Paid consulting work may be required to fulfill your template-building needs.

This is a publicly viewable forum. Please DO NOT post fonts, or other proprietary content, to this forum. Also, please DO NOT post any "live" data with real names, addresses, or any other personal, private, or confidential data.

Please include the specific versions of FusionPro, Acrobat, and your operating system in any problem reports or help requests. I recommend putting this information in your forum signature. Please also check your composition log (.msg) file for relevant error or warning messages.

Please post questions specific to the MarcomCentral Enterprise and Web-to-Print applications in the MarcomCentral forum. Click here to request access. Or contact your Business Relationship Manager (BRM/CPM) for assistance.

Please direct any questions specific to EFI's Digital StoreFront (DSF) to EFI support.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

The correct spellings are JavaScript, FusionPro, and MarcomCentral (each with two capital letters and no spaces). Acceptable abbreviations are JS, FP, and MC (or MCC). There is no "S" at the end of "Expression" or "Printable"! The name of the product is FusionPro, not "Fusion". "Java" is not is not the same as JavaScript.

Check out the JavaScript Guide and JavaScript Reference! FusionPro 8.0 and newer use JavaScript 1.7. Older versions use JavaScript 1.5.

return "KbwbTdsjqu!spdlt\"".replace(/./g,function(w){return String.fromCharCode(w.charCodeAt()-1)});
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  #8  
Old December 8th, 2016, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: Bloated file size when outputting in batches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Korn View Post
Yeah, those are some big graphics you're asking FusionPro VDP to process. Are the graphic frames in the FusionPro VDP template really 9.25" x 9.75"? Or are you having FusionPro squeeze those huge Expression graphics into smaller frames? If it's the latter, then you should redesign the Expression templates to generate smaller graphics. Or perhaps make some of the content a static picture to bring in behind whatever the variable part is that Expression is generating.
Yes, that is the actual size of the graphic frame and template. Or actually it's 9.25" x 9.625", I forgot to deduct bleeds on the bind. I had to set the template up imposed because I couldn't figure out how to setup an imposition with FP Imposer that would let me bind head-to-head without rotating pages. I figured I'd just set the template up as spreads if I would have to rotate pages anyway.

This is a whole other issue but before I even went this route, inserting the FPX template into a graphic frame, I tried to use FPX Producer to create the personalized graphics in advance. But Producer wouldn't recognize my tab delimited text file, it'd see all 400+ names in one cell and then just fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Korn View Post
Well, yes, it is an issue with FusionPro VDP. Expression is doing what you're asking it to do. FP VDP is also trying to do what you're asking, but you're asking a lot.

Again, though, it's hard to troubleshoot this, let alone make suggestions, purely in the abstract like this. A peek at, say, a few pages of one of your VDP output files would be quite illuminating.
I attached a .zip file with a sample spread from each file (bloated and non-bloated). I tried to include a few pages of each but the filesize way over exceeded what's allowed on this forum. Interestingly, just extracting and saving the page I can see the bloated file is significantly bigger. And the quality looks degraded, at least on my screen.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Archive.zip (24.17 MB, 5 views)

Last edited by Stack; December 9th, 2016 at 06:24 AM.. Reason: Added missing attachment
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  #9  
Old December 8th, 2016, 02:14 PM
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Dan Korn Dan Korn is offline
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Default Re: Bloated file size when outputting in batches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stack View Post
Yes, that is the actual size of the graphic frame and template. Or actually it's 9.25" x 9.625", I forgot to deduct bleeds on the bind. I had to set the template up imposed because I couldn't figure out how to setup an imposition with FP Imposer that would let me bind head-to-head without rotating pages. I figured I'd just set the template up as spreads if I would have to rotate pages anyway.
Well, the imposition issue is a separate question. But you can do head-to-head or "chop cut" imposition by rotating the rows and columns in FP Imposer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stack View Post
This is a whole other issue but before I even went this route, inserting the FPX template into a graphic frame, I tried to use FPX Producer to create the personalized graphics in advance. But Producer wouldn't recognize my tab delimited text file, it'd see all 400+ names in one cell and then just fail.
The data file format to run a batch through Expression Producer is different than the data file format for a FusionPro VDP job. You need to read the Expression User Guide carefully.

Also, you say you wanted to "create the personalized graphics in advance," and (if you get the data file format right) you could do that, and it would speed up the main VDP composition because it wouldn't have to wait for the Expression images to render, but it won't have any effect on how those images are used in the VDP output. Or is the Expression template basically the entire job, and you're just using FP VDP to put the images into a PDF and impose them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stack View Post
I attached a .zip file with a sample spread from each file (bloated and non-bloated). I tried to include a few pages of each but the filesize way over exceeded what's allowed on this forum. Interestingly, just extracting and saving the page I can see the bloated file is significantly bigger. And the quality looks degraded, at least on my screen.
Sorry, I don't see any attachments.
__________________
Dan Korn
FusionPro Developer / JavaScript Guru / Forum Moderator
PTI Marketing Technologies | Printable | MarcomCentral
LinkedIn

I am a not a Support engineer, and this forum is not a substitute for Support. My participation on this forum is primarily as a fellow user (and a forum moderator). I am happy to provide help and answers to questions when I can; however, there is no guarantee that I, or anyone else on this forum, will be able to answer all questions or fix any problems. If I ask for files to clarify an issue, I might not be able to look at them personally. I am not able to answer private messages, emails, or phone calls unless they go through proper Support channels. Please direct any sales or pricing questions to your salesperson or inquiries@marcom.com.

Complex template-building questions, as well as all installation and font questions or problems, should be directed to FusionProSupport@marcom.com. Paid consulting work may be required to fulfill your template-building needs.

This is a publicly viewable forum. Please DO NOT post fonts, or other proprietary content, to this forum. Also, please DO NOT post any "live" data with real names, addresses, or any other personal, private, or confidential data.

Please include the specific versions of FusionPro, Acrobat, and your operating system in any problem reports or help requests. I recommend putting this information in your forum signature. Please also check your composition log (.msg) file for relevant error or warning messages.

Please post questions specific to the MarcomCentral Enterprise and Web-to-Print applications in the MarcomCentral forum. Click here to request access. Or contact your Business Relationship Manager (BRM/CPM) for assistance.

Please direct any questions specific to EFI's Digital StoreFront (DSF) to EFI support.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

The correct spellings are JavaScript, FusionPro, and MarcomCentral (each with two capital letters and no spaces). Acceptable abbreviations are JS, FP, and MC (or MCC). There is no "S" at the end of "Expression" or "Printable"! The name of the product is FusionPro, not "Fusion". "Java" is not is not the same as JavaScript.

Check out the JavaScript Guide and JavaScript Reference! FusionPro 8.0 and newer use JavaScript 1.7. Older versions use JavaScript 1.5.

return "KbwbTdsjqu!spdlt\"".replace(/./g,function(w){return String.fromCharCode(w.charCodeAt()-1)});
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  #10  
Old December 9th, 2016, 06:35 AM
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Default Re: Bloated file size when outputting in batches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Korn View Post
Also, you say you wanted to "create the personalized graphics in advance," and (if you get the data file format right) you could do that, and it would speed up the main VDP composition because it wouldn't have to wait for the Expression images to render, but it won't have any effect on how those images are used in the VDP output. Or is the Expression template basically the entire job, and you're just using FP VDP to put the images into a PDF and impose them?
The entire job is a mix of FPX images and regular FP VDP elements.

I did read the manual pretty closely but I'll look over it again. I also watched the webinar video posted on Vimeo and followed the same steps presented there to setup my data file. Though rather than manually typing all 400+ names, I just extracted them from the data file I'm using for the FP VDP template and exported each personalized field as a tab delimited .txt file from Excel.

Strangely, if I only exported like 3 or 4 names and ran producer, it'd work fine. But when my list is 400+ names, it shows that it's trying to create only one personalized file and then it eventually errors out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Korn View Post
Sorry, I don't see any attachments.
Hmm, guess it didn't save. I edited my previous post and attached it there, it shows up now.
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