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Old August 10th, 2016, 06:27 AM
jl_arnold jl_arnold is offline
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Default Variable Graphics in Output

Question on something similar to a watermark.

We have a template that is available for printing and downloading. The client would like the printed graphics to be EPS images, however they would like the downloaded version to contain the same images, just saved as JPEGs.

Before getting into any technical questions, I'm just wondering if it's possible to do this similar to how a watermark can be added to a Proof?

Their issue is that the EPS output looks bad on their screens when downloaded, but it prints very well on our end. The next issue when using JPEGs is that while it makes the on-screen PDF looks great, the printed version with JPEGs from us does not look as good. However, they prefer the downloaded JPEGs because those print fine on a desktop printer.

Is something like this possible?

Thanks!
Jason
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Old August 10th, 2016, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: Variable Graphics in Output

If you want to swap out the image resources that the template is using, I believe you'll have to create both an EPS version and a JPG version and write a rule to determine which to pull in based on whatever logic you're using to display a watermark.

Alternatively, in the composition settings, you can select "JPEG Options" under the "Output" tab and enable JPEG output. Doing this will create a jpg of the output (in addition to the PDF or whatever you're creating for print) which you could allow the client to download and print.

Speaking of the client, how are they accessing the template/downloading proofs? If it's through MarcomCentral, you might get a more helpful/specific response by moving this post to the MarcomCentral forum.
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  #3  
Old August 10th, 2016, 08:46 AM
jl_arnold jl_arnold is offline
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Default Re: Variable Graphics in Output

Step,

Yes, the client is creating their templates through MarcomCentral. I think I'll need to repost this there.

I started with this forum because I wasn't sure if there is known JavaScript rule to swap variable graphics. However, I did think of an option that could work: Recreating my template using both EPS and JPG pages, adding two fields Print and Download, and making these fields determine the page usage where Print is the EPS and Download is the JPG art.

If you see any issues with this or can think of a better way, please let me know!

Thanks!
Jason
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Old August 10th, 2016, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: Variable Graphics in Output

Quote:
Originally Posted by jl_arnold View Post
However, I did think of an option that could work: Recreating my template using both EPS and JPG pages, adding two fields Print and Download, and making these fields determine the page usage where Print is the EPS and Download is the JPG art.

If you see any issues with this or can think of a better way, please let me know!
Sure, that seems like it would work. It's also worth mentioning that FusionPro converts your EPS files to PDF files during composition. So if you're going to go through the trouble of creating JPGs and adding new data fields, you might also have success with just creating the PDFs of the EPS files yourself and adjusting the settings until you get the output you and the client both find acceptable. Then you could just use the PDF graphics and not worry about switching them based on output status (i.e. print/download).
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  #5  
Old August 10th, 2016, 09:25 AM
jl_arnold jl_arnold is offline
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Default Re: Variable Graphics in Output

Honestly, I think the only issue is on screen viewing of the PDFs that contain EPS graphics. The same issues occurs when exporting the InDesign file with EPS graphics to a high quality print PDF, so to me there is no issue, it just an on screen resolution/display thing.

The PDF displays the EPS graphics with thin white lines, as if it's creating boxes around the grouped vector art. However when we print this PDF, it looks perfect.

BUT I like your idea of getting PDF graphics. Because if they create the graphics and see the white lines, hopefully they finally understand it's an on screen viewing issue and the files print just fine. I'll see if I can get copies of the original artwork and save them as PDF graphics.


Thanks Step!
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  #6  
Old August 10th, 2016, 10:33 AM
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Dan Korn Dan Korn is offline
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Default Re: Variable Graphics in Output

Quote:
Originally Posted by jl_arnold View Post
The client would like the printed graphics to be EPS images, however they would like the downloaded version to contain the same images, just saved as JPEGs.
Yeah, that's not really how it works. Step is correct: If you're composing to PDF (or an output format based on PDF, such as VDX), then the output contains neither EPS nor JPEG graphics; it contains PDF graphics. All graphics are converted into PDF objects for inclusion in the PDF output. Likewise, for PostScript output, all graphics are converted to PostScript. (The exception is multi-file output, such as multi-file VPS or PPML with external graphics, where the original graphics are referenced and processed by the RIP.)

That said, there is a difference between vector and raster art. PDF and EPS can contain vector art, where instead of pixels, everything is defined as a set of curves, which can be infinitely scaled with no loss of resolution (like how glyphs in a font work). Other formats are raster-only. But most PDF and EPS graphics are actually raster art as well, expect for text. So if anything, you will lose resolution by rasterizing EPS graphics with vector art or text to JPEG or another raster format.

FusionPro will maintain the vector art in EPS or PDF graphics throughout the composition and any conversions, so that you still get vector art in the output. This lets the press/RIP or other rendering device do the final, optimal rasterization of the vector art (or, if you're using something like a plotter, to not rasterize it at all). So, just like you want to keep color profiles around as long as possible until the final rendering, you want to keep vector art unrasterized as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl_arnold View Post
Before getting into any technical questions, I'm just wondering if it's possible to do this similar to how a watermark can be added to a Proof?
Sure, in a MarcomCentral composition, you can access the CFG setting "isOnlinePreview", or simply call the IsOnlinePreview() function in a rule, to do things differently for preview and press compositions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl_arnold View Post
Their issue is that the EPS output looks bad on their screens when downloaded,
On their screens? In what viewing application exactly? Perhaps there's an issue in whatever app they're using to view the output, or something that can be configured.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl_arnold View Post
but it prints very well on our end. The next issue when using JPEGs is that while it makes the on-screen PDF looks great, the printed version with JPEGs from us does not look as good.
Well, that's probably because your vector-based EPS graphics have been rasterized to a particular resolution that doesn't match the printing resolution. That's why it's best to leave vector art alone (unrasterized) through as much of the composition and prepress process as possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl_arnold View Post
However, they prefer the downloaded JPEGs because those print fine on a desktop printer.
Now you've lost me. What's wrong with printing the EPS graphics? Most desktop printers are PostScript printers, so there's no reason why they can't print EPS graphics; that's basically their native format. Although, if a desktop printer is the intended rendering device, you might want to consider composing to PostScript instead of to PDF.
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Dan Korn
FusionPro Developer / JavaScript Guru / Forum Moderator
PTI Marketing Technologies | Printable | MarcomCentral
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I am a not a Support engineer, and this forum is not a substitute for Support. My participation on this forum is primarily as a fellow user (and a forum moderator). I am happy to provide help and answers to questions when I can; however, there is no guarantee that I, or anyone else on this forum, will be able to answer all questions or fix any problems. If I ask for files to clarify an issue, I might not be able to look at them personally. I am not able to answer private messages, emails, or phone calls unless they go through proper Support channels. Please direct any sales or pricing questions to your salesperson or inquiries@pti.com.

Complex template-building questions, as well as all installation and font questions or problems, should be directed to FusionProSupport@PTI.com. Paid consulting work may be required to fulfill your template-building needs. Please do not post proprietary font files to this forum.

Please include the specific versions of FusionPro, Acrobat, and your operating system in any problem reports or help requests. I recommend putting this information in your forum signature. Please also check your composition log (.msg) file for relevant error or warning messages.

Please post questions specific to the MarcomCentral Enterprise and Web-to-Print applications in the MarcomCentral forum. Click here to request access. Or contact your Business Relationship Manager (BRM/CPM) for assistance.

Please direct any questions specific to EFI's Digital StoreFront (DSF) to EFI support.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

The correct spellings are JavaScript, FusionPro, and MarcomCentral (each with two capital letters and no spaces). Acceptable abbreviations are JS, FP, and MC (or MCC). There is no "S" at the end of "Expression" or "Printable"! The name of the product is FusionPro, not "Fusion". "Java" is not is not the same as JavaScript.

Check out the JavaScript Guide and JavaScript Reference! FusionPro 8.0 and newer use JavaScript 1.7. Older versions use JavaScript 1.5.

return "KbwbTdsjqu!spdlt\"".replace(/./g,function(w){return String.fromCharCode(w.charCodeAt()-1)});
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  #7  
Old August 10th, 2016, 11:30 AM
jl_arnold jl_arnold is offline
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Default Re: Variable Graphics in Output

Dan,

Thanks for all the info! It certainly helps me go back to the client and reiterate we want to keep the vector art using EPS or PDF graphics.

The part where I lost you, I meant that more as the JPEG versions were fine for downloading and desktop printing because they would only be printing a few copies, but they didn't want JPEGs for us to print because the EPS files print better. You can just wrap this in as answered with your other responses.

I have now included a sample. In the sample image, the PDF on the lefts uses a JPEG background and the PDF on the right uses the EPS background image. On the right you can see the white lines.


https://images.printable.com/imageli.../JPEGvsEPS.jpg



I think I found what I needed. It seems like it's just a quirk with EPS graphics and PDF display settings. I found an article or two that explains things a bit. This one was good:

http://rwillustrator.blogspot.ae/201...pdf-files.html

http://blog.imagesmith.com/2011/04/2...ey-wont-print/



I've been trying to explain it's an on-screen only issue, but our client believes the lines will cause questions and issues for those creating documents from in MarcomCentral. Hopefully we can avoid this by using PDF graphics instead of EPS. I did not think this was an issue with Marcom, but you guys certainly helped me figure out a better way to save the graphics in the templates.


Thanks!
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  #8  
Old August 10th, 2016, 12:16 PM
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Dan Korn Dan Korn is offline
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Default Re: Variable Graphics in Output

Quote:
Originally Posted by jl_arnold View Post
Thanks for all the info! It certainly helps me go back to the client and reiterate we want to keep the vector art using EPS or PDF graphics.
Great, glad I could help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl_arnold View Post
The part where I lost you, I meant that more as the JPEG versions were fine for downloading and desktop printing because they would only be printing a few copies, but they didn't want JPEGs for us to print because the EPS files print better. You can just wrap this in as answered with your other responses.
I see. So the upshot is that output using the EPS graphics prints fine, as expected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl_arnold View Post
I have now included a sample. In the sample image, the PDF on the lefts uses a JPEG background and the PDF on the right uses the EPS background image. On the right you can see the white lines.
https://images.printable.com/imageli.../JPEGvsEPS.jpg
Okay, thanks for this. A picture is indeed worth a thousand words. Although in this case, a few words of context would be helpful, especially to clarify exactly what viewing application is being shown there. As asked in my previous post (but not answered explicitly):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Korn View Post
On their screens? In what viewing application exactly?
Though I can infer from your other responses that you're talking about Acrobat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Korn View Post
Perhaps there's an issue in whatever app they're using to view the output, or something that can be configured.
Indeed, this is the case, as you note:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl_arnold View Post
I think I found what I needed. It seems like it's just a quirk with EPS graphics and PDF display settings. I found an article or two that explains things a bit. This one was good:

http://rwillustrator.blogspot.ae/201...pdf-files.html

http://blog.imagesmith.com/2011/04/2...ey-wont-print/
Yes, Acrobat is not always WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get). Remember that it's doing a particular kind of rasterization and color correction for your screen, in RGB at a particular resolution, which is different that the rasterization and color correction that a RIP will do for a printing process, in CMYK and likely at a much higher resolution. There are also many other considerations for printing that can't be accounted for on a computer screen, such as the media, ink spread, registration, cropping, etc. (This is why the concept of a "digital proof" of something that's going to be printed is, frankly, pretty much baloney.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl_arnold View Post
I've been trying to explain it's an on-screen only issue, but our client believes the lines will cause questions and issues for those creating documents from in MarcomCentral. Hopefully we can avoid this by using PDF graphics instead of EPS.
That won't make a difference. FusionPro will convert them as needed. Although giving it PDF graphics in the first place may same some time during the composition. The important thing is not to rasterize the graphics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl_arnold View Post
I did not think this was an issue with Marcom,
Well, I didn't either, expect that in your first post, instead of just talking about output composed by FusionPro, you mentioned "downloading" and "downloaded" multiple times, which always makes people wonder/ask where you're downloading from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl_arnold View Post
but you guys certainly helped me figure out a better way to save the graphics in the templates.
The thing is though, I'm not sure we did, not really. You were never wrong to use the EPS graphics in the first place.
__________________
Dan Korn
FusionPro Developer / JavaScript Guru / Forum Moderator
PTI Marketing Technologies | Printable | MarcomCentral
LinkedIn

I am a not a Support engineer, and this forum is not a substitute for Support. My participation on this forum is primarily as a fellow user (and a forum moderator). I am happy to provide help and answers to questions when I can; however, there is no guarantee that I, or anyone else on this forum, will be able to answer all questions or fix any problems. If I ask for files to clarify an issue, I might not be able to look at them personally. I am not able to answer private messages, emails, or phone calls unless they go through proper Support channels. Please direct any sales or pricing questions to your salesperson or inquiries@pti.com.

Complex template-building questions, as well as all installation and font questions or problems, should be directed to FusionProSupport@PTI.com. Paid consulting work may be required to fulfill your template-building needs. Please do not post proprietary font files to this forum.

Please include the specific versions of FusionPro, Acrobat, and your operating system in any problem reports or help requests. I recommend putting this information in your forum signature. Please also check your composition log (.msg) file for relevant error or warning messages.

Please post questions specific to the MarcomCentral Enterprise and Web-to-Print applications in the MarcomCentral forum. Click here to request access. Or contact your Business Relationship Manager (BRM/CPM) for assistance.

Please direct any questions specific to EFI's Digital StoreFront (DSF) to EFI support.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

The correct spellings are JavaScript, FusionPro, and MarcomCentral (each with two capital letters and no spaces). Acceptable abbreviations are JS, FP, and MC (or MCC). There is no "S" at the end of "Expression" or "Printable"! The name of the product is FusionPro, not "Fusion". "Java" is not is not the same as JavaScript.

Check out the JavaScript Guide and JavaScript Reference! FusionPro 8.0 and newer use JavaScript 1.7. Older versions use JavaScript 1.5.

return "KbwbTdsjqu!spdlt\"".replace(/./g,function(w){return String.fromCharCode(w.charCodeAt()-1)});

Last edited by Dan Korn; August 10th, 2016 at 12:18 PM.. Reason: Don't need the giant graphic in my reply.
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